Carvin Going Out of Business?

[Cagey]

I'm reading around the interwebs that people are getting emails from Carvin that say: "The Carvin Audio factory will be closing our doors, and we are liquidating our stock. Save 25% on most items with promo BIGSAVE. All sales are final."

So, I go to their site and in big letters it says "LIQUIDATION SALE"

It's not enough that Tom Petty had to die, now Carvin's going too?

 

[swarfrat]

Wahh no. I wonder what my modded 84' X-60C is worth? Still sad to see an icon go.

 

[mayfly]

wow - that's pretty crazy.  Probably someone wants to retire but could not find a buyer for the business.

 

[DustyCat]

Maybe this is a transition from Carvin to Kiesel?

 

[AirCap]

Kiesel and Carvin recently "divorced" as companies. Kiesel is on their own now financially, but still under Carvins' roof.

 

[Hendrix]

Kiesel more enterprising and more understanding new social media power under the son's running, I think that why they "divorced" .

Carvin a kind of "old school " and pass away like Gibson  :sad:

 

[Cagey]

I don't know about that. They're two different companies run by brothers with the same backgrounds, just focusing on different areas. Both in the musical equipment business, but one did sound reinforcement, the other did instruments.

They both did the vast majority of their business via mail order/online, so is one area more suitable than the other for that kind of sales/distribution? If I had to guess, I'd say instruments wouldn't do well with that model because people want to play a thing before they buy it. But, you could make the same argument about sound reinforcement - people want to hear an amp before they buy it. Besides, there are some pretty big online operations doing quite well. Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, AMS, etc. come to mind. Nobody can play or hear what they sell. And the biggest retailer on the planet, Guitar Center, where you can play/hear before you buy, is constantly on the verge of bankruptcy. So, online vs. brick & mortar doesn't seem to be a deciding factor in sales.

I don't think it was a product issue. Carvin's stuff has always been high quality/high performance gear at very reasonable prices. Advantageously so, in many cases. Service has always been exemplary.

So, what's left? Profit margins. Could be the cost of doing business was too close to sales and the perception was there wasn't room for higher prices, so the business was unsustainable. Occam's razor says simplest explanation is most often right, so I'm gonna go with that one. Makes sense. If it was a management/product/quality/service issue, they could have just sold the business to someone else who could make it work. But, you can't sell a business if the books look bad, so the only option is to close the doors.

They've probably seen this coming for a while, which is what drove the separation of the sound reinforcement/instrument groups into two companies in the first place.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Most unfortunate, but look at the bright side.

We may see a new signature amp by Steve Vai in the next year or two.

Who will he go with?  Marshall, Bogner, Freidman, Egnater, other?

 

[swarfrat]

Guitar/Bass amps are still in upheaval as we reached the tipping point in modelling / class D a few years ago. The ROI just ain't there for mid-level manufacturing. Same with mixing boards and digital mixers. One thing which they did do was sell a decent speaker cabinet at a decent price, but those are thin margins.  Shifting the instrument side of the house to high end just makes business sense unfortunately.

But major kudos to Carvin for slugging it out in this spot against impossible odds  for as long as they did. Well done gang!

 

[AirCap]

Carvin's stuff has always been high quality/high performance gear

ALWAYS? I can remember seeing a Carvin mixer in the late 70's opened up and the chips were held in with DUCT TAPE.

 

[Cagey]

I don't doubt it. I've seen worse in much more expensive gear. There's always a learning curve on new designs that results in some less-than-stellar modifications to existing gear to bring it up to speed. Subsequent production is adjusted to incorporate the various kluges and modifications, and the evidence that the thing was designed by fallible beings is buried.

 

[aarontunes]

Most unfortunate, but look at the bright side.

We may see a new signature amp by Steve Vai in the next year or two.

Who will he go with?  Marshall, Bogner, Freidman, Egnater, other?

This was exactly my first thought as well. Major, major endorsee is now a free agent.

Amp makers are probably lighting up his phone today.


I would love to see him land at Bogner. Reinhold's eccentricities seem like a perfect match for Vai. Plus, the Helios is my favorite amp of all time.

 

[dmraco]

Jeff Keisel was just on FACEBOOK like talking about the bad news.  Carvin closing but Keisel guitars still staying in business.

 

[MikeW]

I don't know about that. They're two different companies run by brothers with the same backgrounds, just focusing on different areas. Both in the musical equipment business, but one did sound reinforcement, the other did instruments.

They both did the vast majority of their business via mail order/online, so is one area more suitable than the other for that kind of sales/distribution? If I had to guess, I'd say instruments wouldn't do well with that model because people want to play a thing before they buy it. But, you could make the same argument about sound reinforcement - people want to hear an amp before they buy it. Besides, there are some pretty big online operations doing quite well. Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, AMS, etc. come to mind. Nobody can play or hear what they sell. And the biggest retailer on the planet, Guitar Center, where you can play/hear before you buy, is constantly on the verge of bankruptcy. So, online vs. brick & mortar doesn't seem to be a deciding factor in sales.

I stopped by both the Carvin and Keisel booths at last year's NAMM. Living down here in San Diego, I know a couple guys that worked for Carvin for a long time. After the "divorce", one went with with Keisel and the other stuck with Carvin. According to them, internal discussions indicated marketing, and direction of the company/products was a big part of the determination to split the original Carvin in two. It was determined by some powers that be, that the amp side of the business was just not conducive to the social media-driven marketplace that they found themselves competing in.

So, what's left? Profit margins. Could be the cost of doing business was too close to sales and the perception was there wasn't room for higher prices, so the business was unsustainable. Occam's razor says simplest explanation is most often right, so I'm gonna go with that one. Makes sense. If it was a management/product/quality/service issue, they could have just sold the business to someone else who could make it work. But, you can't sell a business if the books look bad, so the only option is to close the doors.

I imagine that this is the end result of what's been coming for a long time. I suspect that there may have been research into whether it would have been profitable to move manufacturing overseas as well, but there was too much pride in the "Made in USA" label to consider that seriously.

It's a shame really since I think their gear has been high-quality for a long time. I still have my Legacy 3 and love the tones out of it.

 

[aarontunes]

I stopped by both the Carvin and Keisel booths at last year's NAMM. Living down here in San Diego, I know a couple guys that worked for Carvin for a long time. After the "divorce", one went with with Keisel and the other stuck with Carvin. According to them, internal discussions indicated marketing, and direction of the company/products was a big part of the determination to split the original Carvin in two. It was determined by some powers that be, that the amp side of the business was just not conducive to the social media-driven marketplace that they found themselves competing in.

I imagine that this is the end result of what's been coming for a long time. I suspect that there may have been research into whether it would have been profitable to move manufacturing overseas as well, but there was too much pride in the "Made in USA" label to consider that seriously.

It's a shame really since I think their gear has been high-quality for a long time. I still have my Legacy 3 and love the tones out of it.

I never made it to the Carvin booth, but passed by the Keisel booth several times, and it was constantly, uncomfortably packed with people.


As far as the made in USA thing, are you just talking about Keisel? I know for certain Carvin has been having much of their audio stuff manufactured overseas for a long time. For example, I own the Carvin in-ear wireless system, which uses AA batteries. However, AA batteries will not fit in it...only UM3 batteries, the Asian AA "equivalent". They informed me that UM3 batteries are slightly shorter, and unfortunately their overseas manufacturer made the tolerances too tight for AA to work. They assured me my name was on a list, and I would receive a corrected battery pack as soon as they resolved the problem with their manufacturer.


-sigh-


Anybody have any UM3's laying around that they don't want?

 

[MikeW]

... I suspect that there may have been research into whether it would have been profitable to move manufacturing overseas as well, but there was too much pride in the "Made in USA" label to consider that seriously.

...

As far as the made in USA thing, are you just talking about Keisel? I know for certain Carvin has been having much of their audio stuff manufactured overseas for a long time. For example, I own the Carvin in-ear wireless system, which uses AA batteries. However, AA batteries will not fit in it...only UM3 batteries, the Asian AA "equivalent". ...

Yep. I meant the guitar manufacturing plant that is still here in San Diego. I didn't make that very clear in my first post.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I have friends that work at Nady, and at one time the Carvin units were just re-branded Nady Chassis', which were imported but "Assembled in the U.S.A." :glasses9:

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, that "Assembled in USA" is just weasel words. Lotta companies do that. Apple is big on it, as was/is Dell. 98% of the thing is made in China, it gets here and they open two boxes, attach one part to the other and put it in a new box, then call it "Assembled in USA" so everybody can rub their tummies and feel good about themselves.