A few questions about Pau Ferro

[Markdude]

In the somewhat distant future I'd like to build a Warmoth Tele Deluxe with The Creamery's P90-sized Wide Range humbuckers. It will have a swamp ash body and a maple neck. With the aesthetic options I have in mind, I'd like a dark fretboard, but don't want to go with ebony. Dark Indian Rosewood seems like a logical choice, but I have read that rosewood + swamp ash can sometimes result in a lot of upper treble presence, whereas maple doesn't have the sizzle but rather the punchy upper mids, which is more what I'm looking for.

Is Pau Ferro comparable to maple when it comes to tone? I definitely want something fairly bright and snappy (especially since I expect the Wide Range humbuckers to be fairly fat sounding, even if they're brighter than standard humbuckers). I'm definitely not against rosewood but I'm just worried that the presence region of the frequency spectrum is not what I want emphasized.

If I do go with Pau Ferro, does it need to be conditioned regularly? And will it darken up with certain kinds of oils (like rosewood does)? I really want something as dark as possible rather than a creamy, chocolate color.

 

[Cagey]

In my experience, Maple and Pau Ferro are very similar woods tonally. Also, Pau Ferro doesn't require a finish or any special ongoing treatment.

I'm not sure where you heard that Rosewood connected to Swamp Ash would "result in a lot of upper treble presence, whereas maple doesn't have the sizzle but rather the punchy upper mids". Woods are notoriously inconsistent in their density/grain so I can imagine that might have happened to somebody, but generally speaking, I would expect a Rosewood/Swamp Ash combo to be the more upper-midrangy combination.

If you don't care for a chocolatey-brown coloration, Pau Ferro might disappoint. If you want dark not-Ebony, you may want to consider Ziricote. It's dense so it's a good compliment to Maple, it's darker than either Pau Ferro or Rosewood and it often has some very interesting figuring to it. Get it without inlays, but dots on the side (don't worry, it only takes a minute to get used to) so you can see it all nicely, and you'll have a gorgeous instrument without peer.

 

[Markdude]

Thanks for the insight, it's much appreciated!

I'll have to look into Ziricote.

It seems like the prevalence of rosewood having more presence, less upper mids, and more low mids than maple has a lot to do with John Suhr at one time (or possibly still) saying on the Suhr website that swamp ash + rosewood may have a bit too much sizzle for most players and that if that combination was ordered, he would double check with the customer to make sure they really wanted. I see that reference come up in pretty much every thread I can find on The Gear Page about swamp ash + rosewood, and a lot of people seem to agree with that assertion.

I definitely know it all comes down to the particular pieces of wood and that it can be hard to predict exactly how a guitar will sound, but I'd still like to maximize the theoretical chances of the guitar sounding how I want it.

 

[Markdude]

Ah, did some Google image searching for Pau Ferro fretboards and there are quite a few that I dig the look of! I'll definitely still keep it in the running. Does it darken at all with oil or is it resistant?

 

[Cagey]

Interesting. I'm surprised John Suhr would say something like that. Usually, the neck you have to make sure you want would be an Ebony over Maple (or in Rickenbacher's case, Bubinga over Maple) if there was any concern about brightness. Rosewood, at least the Rosewood normally used on necks (Indian) is a tad more subdued. Those are the woods most manufacturers use in guitar neck construction. Warmoth is in a class by themselves when it comes to exotic neck woods where you might have some question about what to expect. Back 100 years ago when you could get Brazilian Rosewood, I would have agreed whole-heartedly. That stuff is dense and hard, so it would behave much like Ebony.

As for body woods, while different species do have an effect, it's pretty far down the list of things that influence an electric guitar's character. Acoustics are, of course, a different matter.

 

[Cagey]

Ah, did some Google image searching for Pau Ferro fretboards and there are quite a few that I dig the look of! I'll definitely still keep it in the running. Does it darken at all with oil or is it resistant?

Pau Ferro won't darken on its own like some species will. It should stay pretty much as delivered.

I wouldn't oil it, though. Oiling any neck is not a great idea, regardless of the dogma you'll hear. Wood usually cracks due to loss of moisture, not oil. Added oil just gets under the frets and softens the wood to where over time refretting may be a problem. If the wood needed any oil replenishment, it would get more than it needs just from your fingers. I think where people got the idea that oiling fretboards was a Good Thing was from overzealous cleaning that left the wood looking a little unhealthy. Adding some oil brought the color/luster back, so it had to be good for it, right? Wrong. But, if one did want to get that healthy glow back in a hurry, a mere drop or two of oil on a rag would be plenty for the whole fretboard.

 

[TBurst Std]

Go with Cagey

Think of Roasted Maple, Canary, or Pau Ferro as equaling basically maple. No need to use maple when there are woods you can use unfinished.

Chose your fretboard wood to suit you appearance desires largely.

IE: a rosewood fretboard represents very little of the wood in a neck, so a small component in the tonal equation. If you dig into your fingerings where you feel the fretboard, then it has an impact on your feel. If you play lightly just using the frets, then no impact.

 

[musicispeace]

I have a swamp ash strat with a maple neck with rosewood board and I can assure you the supposed theory about that combination is not anything I have ever experienced or thought about. At performance volume I would find it hard to believe anyone in the crowd is going to shout between songs that the guitar has hints of this or that in the mids due to the fret board. If John Suhr is talking about guitar woods as if they are fine wines that is just another reason I think he can.....shove off. (If you know what I mean) Too much of such marketing chatter makes some people forget they have these magic knobs on their amps that adjust....gasp.....bass, middle, and treble!

 

[Markdude]

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone!

The more I read about pau ferro, the more intrigued by it I am. I also like the idea of it because it will make the guitar a little more unique.

I have read that allergic reactions to it are common and fairly severe though. Is this something I need to be concerned about if I plan to only play the guitar and not do any kind of work on it myself (sanding, etc.)? I'd probably get an unfinished fretboard if I went with it, if that matters. I've never played a guitar with a pau ferro fretboard before.

 

[TBurst Std]

No. I played a Pau Ferro fretboard before going to my Canry/Canary neck.  Think of this, Fenders fretboard on a SRV model is Pau Ferro

 

[musicispeace]

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone!

The more I read about pau ferro, the more intrigued by it I am. I also like the idea of it because it will make the guitar a little more unique.

I have read that allergic reactions to it are common and fairly severe though. Is this something I need to be concerned about if I plan to only play the guitar and not do any kind of work on it myself (sanding, etc.)? I'd probably get an unfinished fretboard if I went with it, if that matters. I've never played a guitar with a pau ferro fretboard before.

I haven't heard anything negative about Pau Ferro to work with but someone like Cagey is probably the best authority here on that. I've heard Cocobolo is the one where you don't want to be breathing any dust from it. It would be unique as you say and it is highly regarded among Warmoth players. Best wishes with your project and update us on it.

 

[line6man]

Pau Ferro doesn't take any oil. I've tried it, and the oil just wipes right off, without soaking in.

I wouldn't worry about the tone. Between the fact that you can adjust your pickup choice to taste, and the fact that the variability of wood makes it a crapshoot, to begin with, it's not worth losing sleep over.

 

[Cagey]

I have read that allergic reactions to it are common and fairly severe though.

Allergic reactions to some types of wood are less common than one might assume based on reports, but they can be severe for some. Actually, it's not the wood that's the problem, it's the innate chemicals they might contain that make them resistant mold/fungus/insects. Those exotic woods often take forever to grow, and often grow in areas with year-round growing seasons, so they've necessarily evolved certain environmental protections. But, to respond to them you usually need to develop a sensitivity to them in the first place, and it usually takes time and comes from the dust, not the solid form of the wood. Also, the dust particles from some species can be especially small, which can be problematic for the respiratory system for different reasons. In cases where the wood is very hard, cutting/sanding it can produce particles in the micron range.

From The Wood Database:

Although severe reactions are quite uncommon, Pau Ferro has been reported as a sensitizer. Usually most common reactions simply include eye and skin irritation. Anecdotal evidence suggests that there is a high rate of reaction among woodworkers, and the wood contains the very same sensitizing substances as those found in rosewoods (Dalbergia genus). See the articles Wood Allergies and Toxicity and Wood Dust Safety for more information.

When you get right down to it, nearly all wood dust is an allergen/irritant to some degree, so to worry about it is to drive one's self crazy. But, there are some that are unusually toxic, so you do want to be aware of them. Ebony and Cocobolo, for instance, are known to affect many people adversely. Pau Ferro, not so much. It can be an irritant and a sensitizer, so some simple precautions are in order for some people. Myself, I've worked with a lot of it and never had a problem, and I've never heard of anyone else having a problem, either. But, I imagine for few unfortunate souls who seem to be allergic to everything under the sun, exposure to the dust might cause a reaction.

 

[MikeW]

... that rosewood + swamp ash can sometimes result in a lot of upper treble presence, whereas maple doesn't have the sizzle but rather the punchy upper mids, which is more what I'm looking for.

I've got a Swamp Ash Strat with a Canary/Ebony fretboard and there's a ton of midrange sizzle in that combination. If you're looking for punchy upper mids, that's a good combination to go with. Just replace the Ebony fretboard with Pao Ferro and you're good to go.

Is Pau Ferro comparable to maple when it comes to tone? I definitely want something fairly bright and snappy (especially since I expect the Wide Range humbuckers to be fairly fat sounding, even if they're brighter than standard humbuckers). I'm definitely not against rosewood but I'm just worried that the presence region of the frequency spectrum is not what I want emphasized.

Pao Ferro is bright and snappy like Maple is. I used Pao Ferro for a Surf Strat I built not too long ago and the result is bright and clean and articulate. I've got fairly hot humbuckers in that Strat and even with those it's got great clarity and top end.

I'd say that the Canary has a bit more midrange punch to it, but I'm not sure if that's the Canary or the Swamp Ash in the body of that guitar. I'd like to attribute it to a bit of both.

If I do go with Pau Ferro, does it need to be conditioned regularly? And will it darken up with certain kinds of oils (like rosewood does)? I really want something as dark as possible rather than a creamy, chocolate color.

About twice a year I use a rag with just a touch of oil on it to condition the back of the neck and the headstock. In my case, my fingers will leave enough oil behind that the fretboard doesn't need any. As line6man says, the Pao Ferro is so slick that the oil really doesn't stick at all. I just wipe on and wipe right back off since it really doesn't sink in.

 

[Markdude]

Sounds like Pau Ferro is a real winner! Thanks guys, I think I'll be going with it if a sufficiently dark piece of it is available around the time I'm ready to make this purchase.